[CinCV TNG] Audio VST plugins

Sam cinelerra at posteo.de
Wed May 9 16:32:29 CEST 2018


I'm just collecting some information on this topic so I won't forget it, 
so I'm writing this mail.

I discovered a video that shows quite well how Blender 3d and Ardour are 
connected via the JACK Audio Server. Blender is also used by many people 
as video editing software. In this case, the audio workstation is 
outsourced to Ardour. It has the charming advantage that we only have to 
create this interface once. The many external audio plugins can be 
integrated into Ardour.

It would have the following advantages for us:

- The maintenance of plugins would be simplified, because Ardour can 
handle it excellently.
- Concentration on the core function of Cinelerra, video editing.
- Less work with the numerous audio plugins on Update.
- Cinelerra can't cover the range of possibilities in the audio field, 
Ardour is miles ahead. This would open up completely new possibilities 
for sound recording and mastering.
- With this feature Cinelerra would confirm the professional approach in 
the open source world.

https://youtu.be/L_-9srfRuWg

Sam

On 09.05.2018 10:08, Sam wrote:
>
> I noticed the following with the new Calf plugins. The parameter 
> windows of the Calf plugins are not resizable. I always have scroll 
> bars in the window. However, the size of the FFmpeg windows can be 
> changed. It would be great if the new Calf Plugin windows could be 
> resized as desired. Thx.
>
> Sam
>
> On 08.05.2018 20:41, Sam wrote:
>>
>> Thanks for the explanation. I think Cinelerra will gain even more 
>> popularity. Cinelerra has not had the best reputation in the past, 
>> but the constant improvements have finally made it better known that 
>> it is making a seriously positive development. Maybe this will lead 
>> to some developers in the future. Especially when the new, more 
>> modern user interface is ready. The new user interface looks really 
>> good. Unfortunately it takes much longer than planned, because there 
>> are extremely many pictures.
>>
>> I wouldn't develop a rudimentary GUI, that takes a lot of time again. 
>> I might have a better suggestion. Especially for LV2 I would create 
>> an interface to Jack Audio Server. This means to forward the audio 
>> output from Cinelerra to Jack. I think that would work already, 
>> because in the audio settings there is the option to send the audio 
>> output to OSS. The Jack server can pick up this output and forward it 
>> to the Calf plugins. By Calf Plugin I mean the external Calf Jack 
>> Host. I can forward a Cinelerra audio track to the external Calf 
>> plugin and listen to it. Change it with this external calf plugin. As 
>> far as I have seen this external Calf plugin saves the values as XML 
>> file even with the correct name of the respective Calf plugin, for 
>> example Calf Compressor plugin. The Cinelerra Calf plugin could pick 
>> up these values. I don't know if it would even be possible to 
>> directly synchronize the Cinelerra Calf plugins with the external 
>> Calf plugins via the Jack Audio Server. I would recommend creating an 
>> interface to Jack in the future anyway. This gives us undreamt-of new 
>> opportunities in the future. We could probably even connect Ardour 
>> about it. As an example, each Cinelerra audio channel could 
>> optionally be opened as a midi channel to the Jack server. This 
>> solution would have the advantage to connect the plugins only with 
>> the external programs, thus no own GUI's have to be programmed for 
>> the plugins. The Calf Jack Host GUI looks absolutely great.
>> I hope I'm not talking nonsense.
>>
>> With the tool Cadence you even get a graphical setting possibility of 
>> the Jack Server.
>>
>> Here are a few links:
>> Jack - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JACK_Audio_Connection_Kit
>> Jack - Homepage: http://jackaudio.org
>> Jack - API: http://jackaudio.org/api/
>> Cadence for Jack: http://kxstudio.linuxaudio.org/Applications:Cadence
>> Sam
>>
>> On 08.05.2018 15:56, Good Guy wrote:
>>>
>>>     but I can only enter the values manually, without the graphical
>>>     calf interface.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey... if you can find any documentation or instructions on how that 
>>> works...
>>> you will be the first one.  The only reason I got this to work was 
>>> an interface
>>> I found in the ffmpeg filters.  That was the documentation.
>>>
>>> This is the issue.   The graphical user interface (gui) is separate 
>>> from cin5.
>>> It is a program that has its own system of operation. It turns out 
>>> that the
>>> "controls" are a simple enough to communicate, but those programs are
>>> not designed to interface and operate the controls for another external
>>> application program interface (api).
>>>
>>> I agree that these guis are great apis. I would like it a lot.
>>> I may be able to hot wire one, but probably only one if I am lucky.
>>> Especially without documentation, this would be very difficult.
>>>
>>> I can add a simpler gui interface.  I was thinking of adding an 
>>> "add/del"
>>> button that could add sliders or pots for the selected control.  
>>> That way
>>> the gui would not eat up the display, and would only contain the 
>>> controls
>>> that you intend to operate.  It would not be glitzy, just operational.
>>>
>>> Ever since I started working on this, I have been hoping that developers
>>> interested in these programs would contribute to the work.  It is a 
>>> lot of fun,
>>> but there definitely is a limit to what I can do in the time frame 
>>> available.
>>> The ffmpeg filters are a good example.  There are about 100 ffmpeg 
>>> plugins
>>> that are disabled, because the interface won't initialize.  Fixing 
>>> these would
>>> be a piece of cake for the developer, but a nightmare for me.
>>>
>>> gg
>>> PS.  the code documentation in these programs is sphinx and doxygen.
>>> These more or less just restate the comments in the code. A great quote
>>> from my past is: "the comments are what they wish it would do".
>>> In this case, the code is better documentation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 8, 2018 at 1:06 AM Sam <cinelerra at posteo.de 
>>> <mailto:cinelerra at posteo.de>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     First of all many thanks for the implementation of the LV2,
>>>     really great work!
>>>
>>>     The RPM Calf installation worked. All Calf plugins are displayed.
>>>
>>>     I can put the calf plugins on the audio track, but I can only
>>>     enter the values manually, without the graphical calf interface.
>>>     Is it possible to start the Calf interface? Especially the
>>>     well-designed Calf Studio interface makes working much easier.
>>>     Some of these new plugins are useless without a graphical interface.
>>>
>>>     For comparison I can use Calf Jack Host to display the plugins,
>>>     but it is intended for direct midi music production. I added a
>>>     video showing how to start the Calf plugins through Jack and the
>>>     difference in using the plugin. It would be great if I could
>>>     start the Calf interface and it would synchronize the values.
>>>     https://streamable.com/haukx
>>>
>>>     Sam
>>>
>>>     On 08.05.2018 03:19, Phyllis Smith wrote:
>>>>     Some of the information on Calf Studio is a little sketchy.  GG
>>>>     brought up Leap 42.3 and got it working by installing:
>>>>
>>>>     http://packman.links2linux.org/download/calf/2956339/calf-0.0.60-4.7.x86_64.rpm
>>>>     http://packman.links2linux.org/download/calf/2956340/lv2-calf-0.0.60-4.7.x86_64.rpm
>>>>
>>>>     and, of course, liblilv-0-devel for Leap 42.3 (which this was
>>>>     working for you because the 2 examples did show up).
>>>>
>>>>     You do not have to copy anything anywhere - they should just
>>>>     show up.  If further problems. let us know.  GG/Phyllis
>>>>
>>>>     On Mon, May 7, 2018 at 6:25 PM, Sam <cinelerra at posteo.de
>>>>     <mailto:cinelerra at posteo.de>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         The Calf Plugin are unfortunately not displayed. Maybe I'm
>>>>         doing something wrong. Only two LV2 plugins are displayed,
>>>>         L2_Example Fifths and L2_Example Parameters. They seem to
>>>>         be dummy plugins.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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