[CinCV TNG] (no subject)

Haldun ALTAN altan at wanadoo.fr
Mon Apr 7 15:41:24 CEST 2014

In first place I didin't want to write this, didn't want to argue.
Not because you don't care what can i think or write as member of this 
But just because this was poisin and you don't deal with poisin without 
no harm.

Now it's différent.

This email is not already poisinning my day but also poisining, even 
more, damaging our (my) group.
Overall some members of the groupe who helped me alot in my cinelerra-cv 

Now I can't stand back.
Not that i have Don quichotte syndrome but I have plans with 
cinelerra-cv and want to know if it just can be also cinelerra. And if 
not at least make this one last with all thoose people willing to help 
each other.

So I don't want to harm you in return with my words. But I'm not sure of 
it, so excuse me in advance.

I tried to understand why you're that angry and poisinning ( I was going 
to write hatefull)
i read Ichtyo's ( Really making names out of names ???) mails and yours

I got some points :

You don't want to be treated as a talker and try to proove the opposite 
from the past.
We got your point that you financed, helped Adam Wiliams to get him 
write down cinelerra and promote it.
That was in the past Thank you.
People with whom you had theese issues in the past says now "ok wait and 
see. If he does better people will move anyway."
That's not fair enough ? You took the domain name to lead your own way.  
isn't it ? OK. Then go on. Why you're dealing with a dead list and 
trying to gather developpers from here ? ... You just have to create 
your own dynamics with your achievements which will pull people towards 
you isn't it ? Why try to demolish this one ?

You don't want to be treated as a thief. (Who does)  (I skip the "balls" 
It's true. They say that you just hacked c-cv website and you're 
prentending as if it was your work but worst you tell that it's the 
continuity of dead cinelerra-cv.
I checked out. Isn't that the case ? Everybody can check out and see ... 
(That's why I skip the "balls" part) so you better change it quickly 
make it your own. Because the more they see more they will really think 
of you what you don't want them to think.

Two more words about developpers and artists ...

I don't understand the credits you make on hiring and firing worthless, 
lazy and ill developpers. Is that what is a mature thinking for you ? I 
mean there is a real problem of understanding here. Everyone can make 
mistakes but over hundred mistakes aren't YOU the mistake ? How can you 
get credit for yourself out of your own mistakes ? ...

And last about artists ...
In my opion, artwork means to elevate humain soul (not the religous one 
but the one with who we live until we die.) to a better understanding of 
himself and by the same means of others. I can't now imagine how you 
can, with all that hatefull thoughts about human beings in your mind, 
manage a tool to help them to realise that achievement because you have 
to talk with them and understand them in the first place before making 

At the end ...

I don't know if I harmed you, pissed you off or any of that.
But I assure you I can tell all these in your face as I did for hundreds 
more others. (Really, but without "balls" part.)
So I keep my reasonnable doubt.
Do your own work and if it's better, some of us from the group thoose 
who are artists may even come who knows. Everybody changes even to dust.

I'm just asking you to stop ruining this group please.

Now that it's done I can finally go to work.

Haldun ALTAN

Le 06/04/2014 00:31, Michael Collins a écrit :
> To Ichtyo (???) and anyone else with his thinking:
> Please, please, completely ignore anything I and we  do at CINELERRA.ORG
> and please return to your ruminations and fumbling around the Interweb and
> your lack of time to do any significant coding much less send me a
> conciliatory or reasonably understanding  and friendly message instead of
> another nasty note.
> Ichthyo, I know people like you who constantly try to make me believe that
> you think very highly of yourself and your contributions. But, you see, I
> know the real reality of people who communicate as you do and I am
> perfectly capable of replying back to at length and to even expand. You
> see, I am a highly paid professional communicator and businessman and  I
> believe in full and open communications and since you are'nt here in Los
> Angeles for me to direct my comments to your face, I will do so here.
> Now, to try to make nice, I have a great idea Icthyo, and much better,
> please go  start a new NLE like Adam and I did in 2001 and which I
> suggested that he do to advance BROADCAST 2000 and which he, in turn, with
> his genius, created  and  called CINELERRA. I have an idea, go start a new
> NLE and special effects  system and call it Lumiere! Now that project
> would be a real winner
> Oh, yeah, I forgot, "Lumiere" (since it was never published it doesn't get
> to be capitalized) was a brutal and bloody and humiliating failure, wasn't
> it? My bad.
> But, you see, the "Community Effort" of CINELERRA.ORG was failed based on
> reality and on Richard's own words and was dead and would be owned by a
> Domain Broker and sold for a few hundred dollars, if I had not stepped in.
> To reiterate,  for the critical first and a half  of CINELERRA's
> development Adam Williams was working at a company which paid him a
> reasonable enough salary and gave him the time to work almost full time on
> it's development. His opening to that position, was created by me. So, in
> some ways, CINELERRA would not have come from Adam without those unique
> set of circumstances. So, way back in 2000 or so, when you were probably
> drinking at a beer hall and singing an ode to your unique superiority, I
> was actually working at the inception of CINELERRA.
> Then, in partnership with Adam, we spent the next several years promoting
> it at trade shows in the US and even in the advanced thinking capitals of
> Europe. And, by far, the most significant contributions made to CINELERRA,
> by far, are by Adam himself, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in time
> and money spent devoted to it as someone would their own child. Yet, I
> never really heard much of any personal outreach or support to CINELERRA,
> particularly as you all ignored the  "community" face of it and basically
> were a disgrace to Adam's devotion.
> To make it clear, I am here for one reason, and that is to support and PAY
> Heroine Virtual and the standardization of CINELERRA  THROUGH Adam and  HV
> and to work with and PAY developers whom we hire and also PAY any
> reasonable developer who can communicate effectively as a human being. If
> we are not quick enough for your tastes to make magic happen for you,
> well, look how long it took you to realize your miserable failure known as
> "lumiere" lol
> You see, unlike some people, I am not the least bit intimidated by
> "developers" as I have hired and fired, over a hundred of them, usually
> for laziness and lying about their skill sets and their performance.  I
> actually don't like developers since most are ill mannered and stunted in
> mature thinking.
> We, which includes  myself and my core development team here in LA  and I
> can speak for Adam, we are here to support the artists. CINELERRA is
> significantly mature already that a real artist can make magic with the
> program and you are not really needed, to be honest. In fact, I would
> prefer if any of you have anything to say artistically, including
> Raphaella, please go say it in CINELERRA, as you will get a lot more
> support from us based on that work, rather than some useless tweak that
> you can't wait to see in the HV release so you can put it on your CV (or
> you will wet your pants).
> So, as you can guess, I really do not care what any of you think, if you
> are like this cat, "Ichtyo". If you want to make a real effort and create
> a standardized version of CINELERRA, the door will remain open to you, of
> course.
> So, to make it crystal clear MR. ITCHYO, you and anyone else who calls me
> a thief or criminal to my face, you will not like what will happen to you,
> ok, you German prick? Now, since it is evening in the Fatherland and you
> are very possibly sitting around pie-eyed from some cheap  schnapps and
> listening to Wagner, I will give you one chance to apologize and grow up.
> But, I doubt you have the character to admit you are probably an idiot and
> that you lack basic skills of communications so I wont wait.
> To the rest of you who also want to rip me, well, I think you know what I
> would say and do if you were in front of me and I don't think any of you
> have the balls, so that will never happen.
> Note: My little secret is that  here in Hollywood, I know lots of Linux
> media  developers who are usually pretty nice people and not assholes.

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